Marines in europe ww2 reddit The Marine Division was not well suited to European combat, or would only be so with major US Army augmentation in categories like armor, anti-armor From my understanding, the rest of Europe just was very much repelled by the potential of another modern war after WWI. Axis godstomp. The British would attempt a D-Day in 1945 to try and secure some kind of European stronghold against the Soviets, but the French Resistance were heavily communist dominated and the Free French forces likely wouldn’t have as strong a position in Africa as they did after Crusader, so I could see a Kaiserreich Oct 11, 2012 · Marines in Europe and North Africa by Lieutenant Colonel Harry W. The Battle For Tinian: Vital Stepping Stone in America’s War Against Japan by Nathan N. On the other hand, 40k chaos marines are still organised in legions while loyalists divided themselves into chapters of one thousand marines each. Also the use of flamethrowers in the Pacific, it seems they were used more there than in Europe. Ironically, the Marine role in Europe was greater in World War I, where they received so much praise that the next generation of Generals maintained a grudge against the Marine Corps. Obviously in some cases, you could have been shipped out right out of basic training. Definitely Europe—I’ve heard the stories of Japanese POW camps and there’s just no danger of facing that degree of barbarous treatment in Europe. Reply reply More posts you may like. The numbers match up remarkably well here actually. 1. French Troupes de Marine are part of the Army. In pretty much every nation military theorists brought up that the next war would be incredibly brutal and taxing on a nation - both materiel and life would be expended at a high rate. to support a navy. Official Unofficial USMC forum for anything Marine Corps related. Using this spy networks and using groups like SOE they trained and armed rebel groups to fight the Nazis in places such as France, Italy, Poland and Yugoslavia. They also struck some serious blows with Pearl Harbor, and enjoyed quite a bit of time as the preeminent Naval power in the Pacific. TLDR: yes, then no. 1K votes, 674 comments. The fall of Germany in WW2 was a confluence of events and effects. 860 dead, 19,709 wounded. Germans managed to win ww2 in 1948. Keast AFAIR, from the point of view of Chinese historians, China's participation in World War II had a huge impact not only on the Pacific war, but also in Europe and in victory of the Allies in the war. Sledge. The four Marines able to perform the mission were Ortiz, Sgt. The easiest to cross out, at least for me, is the western front. Even today it largely covers it up and hides it. In comparison to the east it was just way less brutal. soldiers fought alongside Marines in the island hopping campaigns of the Pacific War. Straight up racisim. It wasn't uncommon for USAAF crews to fly a complete tour in Europe and then transfer to the Pacific theater, but this was on a man per man basis, not entire units. Reply reply More replies This is an amazing answer! I have a question to tack onto what OP was asking -- I know two of the men on the paternal side of my family (two great-grand uncles, but I don't know what regiments) served in WWI. Wiley, and William R. Ironically the German army was far more tolerant of both french colonial troops and African American soldiers than their own units. Hallas. Basically yes, tl;dr the USMC was essentially purpose built to fight on the islands of the Pacific and while they would have had the experience and expertise to get over the beach they then run into an enemy force they have no experience of fighting, over ground they are not equipped to fight in (plus the logistical challenges of actually getting them there and the impact that would have on While I do believe the photograph is probably incorrectly captioned, there were US Marines serving in the ETO during the war. I think almost all credit should go to the better military tactics I’d say it’s a combination of factors, listed out in no particular order. In the situations you are describing, the Japanese were typically in a hopeless situation, cut off from supply, reinforcement, air or naval support, and up against a better equipped enemy with vastly superior numbers. They are conventional ground forces, with infantry, artillery, paratroopers and so on. For aviation the USMC generally flew Wildcats 1941-43, transitioning over to the Corsair for "fighter" squadrons, while flying the SBD Dauntless for dive bomber missions. The German Navy had a total of 57 submarines, most of which were the smaller Type II coastal boats. But Eisenhower barred the few Marines in his armada from landing - he didn't want the headlines to read "Handful of Marines Save Army From Disaster at Utah Beach. If you modmail asking for access I'll ban… Obviously in some cases, you could have been shipped out right out of basic training. Then Midway. 's family. 00 prior to September 1942) per month, or $600. Saipan: The Battle That Doomed Japan in World War II by James H. During the Battle of the Bulge, Fragmentary Order 27. The Danes refused, and the Germans instituted martial law and dissolved the government - denmark remained under military occupation for the rest of the war, though it was far less brutal than other parts of occupied Europe. They showed an old WWII clip of a military-age fighting man in a business suit crying in the streets of Paris when the Nazis came parading in. May 7, 2019 · After World War II and during the 40 year long Cold War that followed with the Soviet Union, U. Since the US Navy has global responsibilities, the US Marine Corps is proportional to the navy it supports and also has global responsibilities. One extraordinary case of USMC involvement in France was during Operation Dragoon in The 32nd and 41st Infantry Divisions were among the first US troops to commence offensive operations in World War II. The "Big Red One" is one of the very few US infantry divisions of WW2 that a person not well versed in US military history might be able to name. The first was from mid-1943 to the end of March 1944 with allied bombers facing the German Air Force at its strongest, and flying without escorts when attacking targets deep inside Germany. This really can't be overstated. Marines in Europe were tasked with reinforcing NATO’s northern flank in Norway. He lived about a block away from the "Flammensturm von Hamburg" (the flame storm of Hamburg) when Operation Gomorrha aimed to destroy Hamburg as much as possible. The United States Army (including the Army Air Forces), Navy, and the Marine Corps all utilized the same pay scale in WWII. Why were the Marines only fighting the Japanese in the Pacific when the U. The best Soviet-made fighter during World War II, often considered to be the Yakovlev Yak-3, had a maximum service ceiling of about 35,000 feet. operations that might be needed in either Europe or Africa. Fundamentally, military power is based on resources (population, arable land, iron, coal, oil, etc. Not all the men who served in the US military in WW2 were heroes. There's no question as to whether Germany was defeated by the end of WWI, because the German power that rose to fight in WWII was quite, quite different from the German Empire which was utterly defeated and replaced by the Weimar Republic, which then became the Third Reich. It also meant that the best regular Army units were sent to Europe, which meant that the brunt of the fighting in the Pacific would be done by the Marines. He was born in June of 1944, so he more remembers the Greek civil war immediately after WW2, which was also bad, but his older siblings had crazy stories about WW2. Today the Marine Corps has a command center and troops in Germany in order to support any U. TIL American soldiers in the Pacific theater of WW2 always used passwords containing the letter 'L' due to Japanese mispronunciation, a word such as lollapalooza would be used and upon hearing the first two syllables come back as 'rorra' would "open fire without waiting to hear the rest". Their economies were in shambles. Some of them were hardened criminals who were convicted in a court, and the judge gave them the choice " Join the army or go to jail ". Soldiers were allowed, and even encouraged, to kill POWs, especially after the SS killed American POWs. Jack Risler, Sgt. US Casualties: 6. Most Japanese people see their country in World War II as an aggressor that received the most punishing and destructive defeat ever brought on an advanced, modern country. It was an issue even for basics for the entire war; some troops living in caves on Iwo Jima became combat ineffective because they had exhausted their supply of water (stored in jugs) while they would have otherwise been able to WW2 museums in Europe? What are the best museums located in Europe? Countries that I can visit are: Germany, Switzerland, Italy, Austria, Slovenia, Slovakia, Poland, Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Czechia and Hungary. Yes, they made offensive actions to attack the allied fleets, The purpose of a marine corps is naval campaigns i. Looking at these factors alone, we would expect Germany in the 1930's to have the most powerful military in Europe. The average American private soldier who was single made a base pay of $50. I can tell you that our reputation is truly amazing. Texas marines who were going to go and try to help the rangers take the cliff, but were called off at the last minute. military during WWII - 55 of them were black, despite the fact they represented less than 9 percent of the overall military population. That was the main differences between the Marines and the regular Army in the Pacific. The Marine Corps has been under the control of the United States Navy since 1843, and hence is used to project the Navy's power from the sea onto land. There was no man's land, then multiple trench lines that all had to be hit with artillery, and lots of artillery batteries that were far back from the front lines. If you are specifically referencing U. You obviously don't have the Einsatzgruppen and Holocaust behind the front, but even at the front itsself the willingness to hold your position no matter what and to attack a position even if it meant Marines in Okinawa [WWII] Well the whole eastern front of the european theatre was a similar meatgrinder, except its ignored since "dirtie commies and nazies hurr Plenty of WWII war brides came from Europe, and considerably fewer of them from Japan. Oct 8, 2002 · Marines in the Atlantic, Europe and Africa A brief but fairly detailed article by Alexander Molnar Jr regarding the Marines who served in Europe and Africa with the US Navy's shipboard Marine detachments, with the OSS and in other roles. S. 37 votes, 38 comments. They do not operate separately from the rest of the army, they are just ordinary regiments with extra-ordinary traditions and a shared identity. Fred Brunner, and Bodnar who was also a sergeant at the time. The Eastern Front was rife with partisans, in Yugoslavia the partisans basically grew into a conventional military and economic production was deliberately sabotaged across occupied Europe. They also don't mention that the Navy took more casualties at Guadalcanal than the Marines did too. Nov 10, 2022 · Another Marine was injured too badly to continue. As for the opposing aircraft, it interacted quite a bit with IJA fighters. In 1971, after the death of von Schleicher, Germany officialy restored democracy and free elections. 5. We built mobile landing docks, still do but used to too, many went to Europe for Normandy but they were heavily used in the Pacific due to the Island campaign. There were also Marines who served in the OSS--two were killed in action in Europe and another received the Silver Star for his work with guerilla forces in Why were there no significant Marine units in the European theater of World War 2? I know about the Marines training the Army for the amphibious assaults in Europe, and the U. 2M subscribers in the europe community. true. 6 months. (USMC photo) The Marines, some of the only ones to serve in the European theater in World War II, would make good use of the personnel they had. This overall dynamic of attempting to impose Jim Crow abroad continued in the postwar occupation of Europe as well. This made me wonder if the Allies or Axis forces used flamethrowers in Europe. More particularly to your question, a Marines gun crew was killed aboard the USS Savannah when it was struck by a German radio-controlled glide bomb while supporting the Salerno landing. Nimitz needed manpower due to the heavy fighting in Europe, and the Marines was the obvi 486 votes, 33 comments. 22 Army infantry divisions were eventually used in the Pacific. British accepted peace earlier and the Soviet Union collapsed under its own weight without US involvement in the European theater. And he described American Posted by u/100_stacks - 3 votes and 7 comments No one thought that the next European war was going to be a gentlemanly napoleonic war. Except for when the Army made the amphibious Torch Landings in Africa, and in Sicily, and In Italy, oh and I forgot to mention Normandy. The official figure of war related deaths during World War II in Yugoslavia and the immediate post-war period, provided by the Yugoslav government in 1946, was 1,706,000 deaths. After WW2, European powers like Germany, France, UK, etc were in ruins. I got heavily inspired by 1blomma’s ethno-linguistic map of Europe. The Pacific on the other hand was for the most part Seaborne. Those Japanese Americans had it rough, along with other minority groups during World War II. Now after world War II, there was definitely a cessation in fighting, with the founding of the United Nations and NATO, and the United States guaranteeing global trade through the use of its navy. We built so many that the Navy didn't know what to do with them, so they turned a few of them into floating ice cream factories. If you modmail asking for access I'll ban… I served as an attache' in our embassy in a European country. However, they were not able to match the military might and strategic capabilities of the United States, which ultimately led to their defeat in the war. With the Old Breed: At Peleliu and Okinawa by E. The maximum ceiling of the B-29 Superfortress was about 40,000 feet. The new government pushed for a policy of cooperation with the other european countries. 52,173 were battle casualty deaths: 45,520 killed in action, 1,140 died of wounds, 3,603 were missing in action and declared dead, and 1,910 were non-hostile battle deaths. Same with killing of civilians and soldiers murdering each other. Good luck invading mainland Europe without using the UK as staging post. I know the European Front was extremely brutal, but so was the Pacific. B. Not a full answer, but no US infantry units served in both theaters. Prefer. Marines raced to their objective, taking out whetever enemy was convenient to take out on the way. Marine Corps paratroopers, they were not used in Europe. The thing that somewhat perplexes me is how did a war torn Europe after the devastation of 2 major conflicts (WW1 and WW2) not only recover so quickly, but completely recover to the point where they’re highly developed economies. The Germans did not, in fact, start WWII with more submarines than the Allies. Marines were garrisoned at Wake Island for example and helped fight the Japanese there (though they lost). draftees in the Marine Corps of the 448,000 that served between 1965 and 1975, so Assuming they are comparable at all, I'd clearly pick the eastern front. Mostly that was due to European women not suffering the racism from a G. USMC were ill-prepared to fight land battles. 785 votes, 37 comments. issued by Headquarters, 328th Infantry Regiment , on 21 December for an attack Army Battle Casualties and Nonbattle Deaths In World War II Final Report 7 December 1941-31 December 1946 (Statistical and Accounting Branch Office of the Adjutant General, 1 June 1953) The Procurement and Training of Ground Combat Troops , by Robert R. The US Army had more experience with large landings than the Marine Corps (TORCH, HUSKY, SHINGLE), and significantly more forces in Europe on hand than the entire Marine Corps ever had during WW2. If you're a Nazi though, fuck off. 139K subscribers in the ww2 community. Number of US Forces Committed: 110,000 marines, sailors, soliders. Overall, the Japanese were able to do well against the British in World War II due to their superior knowledge of the terrain and local conditions, as well as their strong navy and air force. When the war began, the US Army created 5 Airborne Divisions, and only the 11th was deployed to the Pacific, as well as the 503 Parachute Infantry Regiment. When I was in bootcamp the neanderthals 'teaching' Marine history loved to talk shit on the Navy leaving 1st Mardiv at Guadalcanal but conveniently didn't mention the 1000+ Sailors killed overnight at Savo Island or any of the absolutely desperate battles that took place afterwards to establish See every Dawn of War game, arguably Helsreach (although there was also a LOT of guard there so maybe it gets a pass), the Horus Heresy (I believe the Horus Heresy has Space Marines using hundreds of thousands of marines to capture entire planets, which is orders of magnitude less soldiers then fought in WW2 alone), the Ultramarines seemingly The United States Army Air Forces incurred 12% of the Army's 936,000 battle casualties in World War II. France (alongside of the BEF) had the stronger military on paper at the time. Before we get to that, though, it would be worth pushing back on your assumption above -- there was not a clear Army/Marine divide in the way that you describe; the US Army did the bulk of the ground fighting in the Pacific during World War II. Sometimes less than 100 Japanese soldiers were captured on some islands. Just finished reading "Zehn Tage im Juli" (Ten days in july) where the author recounts his time in Hamburg during WW2. Richard G. The reason is because the US didn't have vast stockpiles of obsolescent black powder rifles like the European powers had. I. Davis in Bombing the European Axis Powers groups the Combined Bomber Offensive into three broad phases. Othe countries like Portugal or Spain also placed a lot of discrimination in both society and military to their colonial citizens, and this sentiment was prevelent in most Europe in that time. Funnily enough this is the way to have ww2 without the US involved (in europe): Japan attacks pearl harbour (because they needed to), Germany DOESN'T declare war on the US, and the pro-UK president never convinces the American population to enter a European war after they've finished fighting Japan. The logic is clear enough. Even once in mainland Europe your training never stopped. Locked due to reddit protests, until the 14. Army fought in mostly Europe against Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy? Some U. The simplest answer was once you were drafted, you never stopped training till you got in the fight. Marines referred to them as “Teufelshunde” or devil dogs due to their encounters fighting the marines. The wrinkle for the US Marine Corps is additional Title X and statutory requirements. At least no one that actually dedicated themselves to military theory. In 1986 the EC and the WEU officialy merged toghether, creating the European Union. Usually it was the strategic situation. I want to read this author's book to get a better grasp of what Japanese-American prejudice was like during World War II. If we are talking chaos legions versus loyalist codex chapters we are looking at at least thirty thousand chaos marines versus a maximum of four thousand loyalists. That's 25% casualties. Palmer, Bell I. The IJN was pretty much on the defensive from that point on. I know flamethrowers were used by the German army during the First World War, and were used by the USMC and USA in the Pacific during World War 2. The division fought in nearly every one of the most storied battles in America's WW2 memory - Operation Torch, Operation Husky, even landing on Omaha Beach and fighting during the Battle of the Bulge. Brotherhood of Heroes: The Marines at Peleliu, 1944—The Bloodiest Battle of the Pacific War by Bill Sloan. 27 Medals of Honor were awarded on Iwo Jima, 14 of them posthumously. Hitler went ahead with the war anyway. 5% of Americans killed in WWII died on Iwo Jima. The American logistical effort in World War II was legendary, while the Japanese struggled throughout the conflict. Europe: 50 (+6) countries, 230 languages, 746M people… 1 subreddit. The paternal side of my family is ethnically Kashmiri, and emigrated from the Kashmir Valley to the Punjab r The Soviets would probably still defeat the Germans, probably not until late 1946. A rather famous example of this would be Paul Tibbets who flew 43 combat missions with the Eigh For example, 70 soldiers were executed by the U. During WW2, some soldiers were punished for rape, but only if they were black. 00 ($30. And of course, the Western Allies were able to invade Italy (after occupation), and France successfully. The 1946 report "Naval Aviation Combat Statistics - World War II" lists the following data of F6F kills and losses versus specific fighters, specifically from September 1 1944 to August 15 1945: Ki-43 Oscar: 396 to 26 Ki-61 Tony: 275 to 11 Ki-44 Tojo: 283 to 9 With the US focused entirely on the Japanese, army, navy and marines, this would have freed up British and commonwealth forces for the fight in Europe who had previously been overstretched. World War II was just Europe flaring up again and Asia joining in large scale. Just one little island. At least the Japanese Americans who fought were recognized for their sacrifice and service. " What was the Imperial Japanese soldiers opinion of United States Marines during WWII? Legend has it that after the battle of Belleau Woods during the First World War the Imperial German Army soldiers who fought the U. During the battle of Britain, the Nazis determined that they would need to commit four times the resources that they had to the fight, if they wanted to win. Their shore-raid tactics were far inferior to Army infantry tactics. 00 before any spending per year. Travelling to Europe this summer big WW2 buff (x/post to travel) Going to be mainly in Germany, France & Netherlands (touching in Austria, Switzerland and nearby countries). Ask me anything about the individual regions. 141K subscribers in the ww2 community. . For discussion of all things World War II. 466 votes, 19 comments. They did say that they remember the German soldiers giving chocolate to the kids, that was better chocolate than anything they'd ever had, interestingly enough. Before World War II, Marines served in various European and North African embassies as attaches. Years ago, I got to read the journal of a German officer who had fought on both the Western and Eastern fronts, WW1 and WW2. The Marines were purposely excluded from Europe during World War II and did not play major roles in the largest amphibious invasions in this country's history. Sometimes, they were called in to do some action but this was in very rare cases. The US military always covered up rape. My question as a kid was why wasn't he fighting for his country? 126K subscribers in the USMC community. At the outbreak of war in Europe, US strategic planning was focused on limited engagement in the European theater and taking the offensive in the Pacific and Asia - this somewhat assumed that British and French resistance (supported materially by the US) was sufficient to protect US interests in the western hemisphere from Axis aggression (plan That said, there were some Marines who operated in a support capacity during the D-Day landings - amphibious assault training, sniping, pre-landing sabotage and reconnaissance, so forth. But the UK stayed out of the military cooperation, only the economic one. Tanks, planes, and trucks. The RN had the same number, though twelve of these were obsolete WWI designs. Two, systemic brutality in the Japanese Army - in their training, in their day-to-day actions, in how they treated civilians and POWs, etc. 88,119 airmen died in service. While the German military and industrial support may have been better prepared and trained during the early years of WW2, it was unsustainable when they had to continue fighting on three fronts (Eastern, Western, Africa). The Marines numbered a bit over 20,000 active duty members in 1939, and during the peacetime expansion of the military in 1940-1941, they increased to ~65,000 by utilizing volunteers, and activation of the Organized, Fleet, and Volunteer Reserves. People know all about hellish artillery in WW1, but for whatever reason WW2's massive artillery barrages haven't gained public recognition in the same way. Maybe its just me, but it seems like most people focus on the European Theater of WWII. Marines also flew Avenger torpedo bombers, although the Corsairs and SBDs would mostly do the more direct USMC support. Edwards, USMC (Ret) In World War II, this serv-ice was confined mostly to the larger-sized ships — battleships And we've been doing it since WW2. Hi there -- we have a few older answers on this, mainly focusing on why the USMC was not used in the European theatre. In 1884 the French introduced smokeless powder, and this triggered a massive rearmament across all the major European armies to replace their black powder rifles with new smokeless powder rifles. How did the people, both civilian and military, deal with the language barrier in the occupied territories of europe during World War 2? I presume most people in Poland or France didn't speak german, so how did the Nazis, well, "govern" them? Peter Shriver mentions in his book The Crash of Ruin: American Combat Soldiers in Europe During World War II that 90th Infantry division was noteworthy for executing Waffen SS soldiers attempting to surrender. Trench warfare 'worked' for the defender because the area of trench fighting was so broken up in an attack. e. One of the most important they crack the enigma codes so all the Allies knew of German military plans and positions. B-29 may have been able to fly at such an altitude as to be untouchable by Soviet fighter/interceptors of that time frame. Already on the list is Normandy beaches, Caen, and in Berlin the Fuhrerbunker, and the obvious sites. American battleships and cruisers in the ETO commonly had a detachment of Marines serving onboard. It was their bold and highly risky gamble to send an army group through the Ardennes and outflank the slow to react allies which lead to such a lopsided victory in the battle of France. This meant that I had regular interactions with military attaches from over 50 other countries. It's a bit like the Creation Museum in America--a minority of very vocal dickheads supports that point of view, and everyone else is embarrassed. ) and the ability to mobilize them (economic, technological and industrial development as well as political unity and centralization). 2K votes, 612 comments. Similarly, in 1939, the internal analysis of the military concluded that the military would not be ready for a war like Hitler wanted until 1946. Additionally the age spread of conscripted men that left as bachelors in a time before birth control. That's why the Army had to bail out USMC so many times in the Pacific. I seem to recall reading a passage in Robert Leckie's one-volume history of WWII, Delivered From Evil, where Leckie succinctly sets out the age difference between US Marines and US Army soldiers in WWII: the Marines were approximately 19 years old; the soldiers were approximately 24 years old. The US Forces in Europe awaiting D-Day continuously trained for the fight in Europe. One, racism. Jan 23, 2008 · Overshadowed in history by Marines who fought World War II's Pacific island battles, fewer than 6,000 Marines participated in the Atlantic, North African and European campaigns.
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